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By Evan
#133779
I just don't think your tuning solution isn't ideal. Piggy backs don't work with the new gen ECU's this has been proven since 2002. I also think this why your motor popped in the first place. I really don't want to preach Uprev because I didn't have the best experience originally, but It overwrites the factory values in the ECU and that's the ONLY reason the tuning works.

I personally believe you're running on straight ECU and it's just a disaster waiting to happen (again...).

I can read my AFR's from my wideband too, but it's not always the same readings I see from the factory wideband sensors. I also am on stock MAF with no problems. I believe Jason and Wendell confirmed you need like around 400whp to max it out? I'm not certain on this.

I would love to have you come to a meet as soon as it gets warm out. Let me personally data log your car and tell you what is really happening.
By UpOn1SERiousV
#133879
I'd love to get some accurate information on my car so if we could set it up down the road, great! And I understand Ecus correcting themselves according to afr. But maybe with my lack of o2 sensors the ecu has nothing to correct off of... My afrs hold consistently. The reason I think I blew it before was lean street tuning.... I've run it several times at wot with no issues recently. Not trying to argue what you're saying, just that maybe my setup is working due to my circumstances. Idk... :?
User avatar
By Evan
#134022
It's not a problem at all, we'll see when it gets warmer out how we can set it up.

Show us some pics of your downpipe and sensor setup. I'm curious to see what this looks like with no top wideband afr sensors plugged in/present looks like. Your ECU has to be getting it's information from somewhere and a SAFC can't even make it's own signals, it has to intercept them, where does it intercept from if there aren't any?

I just have a feeling you're running straight stock ECU which is probably retarding the shit out of your timing preventing you from popping your motor. Hell I ran on stock ECU for almost 4 months before I realized that the Uprev software glitched and didn't flash properly.
By Justin@2JRacing
#134030
This car uses 2 o2 sensors for a reason. It treats cylinders 1&3 and 2&4 like seperate engines..... kind of.

One sensor provides feedback for one set of cylinders and one for the other..... so the ECU reasons it should see some difference between the them, especially if it changes pulse width to one set of cylinders....... but, since both sensors are in the same pipe, it "can't control" the AFR and it freaks out..... that's why UpRev wrote the script to "hack" the O2 sensors that's included in the turbo reflash.

In most wideband cars, the O2 sensors are always working.

even in a car with the exhaust recirculated, the wastegate exhaust is going to bypass the sensor..... AFR is an average anyway so it'll be the same as the wastegate gasses...
User avatar
By aaronsummers
#134031
Stitch wrote:It's not a problem at all, we'll see when it gets warmer out how we can set it up.

Show us some pics of your downpipe and sensor setup. I'm curious to see what this looks like with no top wideband afr sensors plugged in/present looks like. Your ECU has to be getting it's information from somewhere and a SAFC can't even make it's own signals, it has to intercept them, where does it intercept from if there aren't any?

I just have a feeling you're running straight stock ECU which is probably retarding the shit out of your timing preventing you from popping your motor. Hell I ran on stock ECU for almost 4 months before I realized that the Uprev software glitched and didn't flash properly.


SAFC is just a adjustable map "clamp" it gets its readings from the MAF sensor and modifies the signal and sends it back to the ECU. If you want to add fuel to a setup all your doing is tricking the ECU to thinking more air is coming into the motor. Pulling fuel is the other way around. A FIC is just a SAFC with more options. You can adjust your timing to watch more whats going on with the motor.
By Justin@2JRacing
#134033
If I had the choice of flash tuning the factory ECU or a piggy back....... I'd stay away from a piggyback...... take a lesson from the Subi and EVO world......
User avatar
By aaronsummers
#134034
Justin@2JRacing wrote:If I had the choice of flash tuning the factory ECU or a piggy back....... I'd stay away from a piggyback...... take a lesson from the Subi and EVO world......


If your planning on making any kind of power over stock i completely agree. If your just trying for a better tune over factory without any real power adders then I don't see a problem with a piggyback.
By UpOn1SERiousV
#134051
ok, I see where everyone is coming from and I do understand why uprev would be the better buy with it's ability to manipulate sensors to work for the setup, however, FIC is on the way and even with the SAFC before, on stock compression, I dyno'd at 302whp with no o2 sensors, 3" exhaust, no cat/resonator, open dump wg, 600cc injectors, walbro 255 fuel pump, on 8 psi (just listed so you'd know my setup). And although the car might have been retarding itself (no clue) it ran good. So yes, I am onboard with you guys and agree that uprev sounds better but due to my results before I'm going to give the FIC a try. I don't need crazy power either.... ideal would be 330ish to the wheels :)
By vc3qsym
#134053
cas3214 wrote:wow, reading this makes me want to stay as far away from boosted as possible... sounds like a complete nightmare :fail:


I was lucky and never had these issues.
It is just a give to run into problems when dealing with something that just started supporting us(uprev). Bugs need to be worked out, in anything.
By UpOn1SERiousV
#134067
A problem with the O2 sensor will prevent the computer from keeping the fuel mixture balanced under changing driving conditions, allowing the mixture to run rich or lean.

I just read that on a site and that's the reason I'm lead to believe that I'm able to run the car how I have. I'm under the impression the ecu is unable to adjust fuel and by my correcting via piggyback and wideband, I'm able to keep it running smoothly... in terms of timing, I can't account for it. That's why I want the FIC to see if my adjusting it will cause it to run more efficiently. It should be here friday. I will keep everyone updated on progess though!
By BlackoutV
#134087
UpOn1SERiousV wrote:A problem with the O2 sensor will prevent the computer from keeping the fuel mixture balanced under changing driving conditions, allowing the mixture to run rich or lean.

I just read that on a site and that's the reason I'm lead to believe that I'm able to run the car how I have. I'm under the impression the ecu is unable to adjust fuel and by my correcting via piggyback and wideband, I'm able to keep it running smoothly... in terms of timing, I can't account for it. That's why I want the FIC to see if my adjusting it will cause it to run more efficiently. It should be here friday. I will keep everyone updated on progess though!


If you dont have any o2 sensors plugged in, then what fuel map is the ecu running off of in closed loop? The safc just adjusts according to the map set, which from what I understand, there is no set fuel map in closed loop because thats why we have the o2 sensors...unless the stock fuel map used in open loop covers the entire rpm range if you don't have the o2's plugged in. Does that make sense? This is pretty confusing to me as well as I am fairly new to tuning.
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By Evan
#134103
How many miles a week do you drive your car? What type of driving conditions do you do? Your car should have no isses going WOT which is why your dyno isn't anything we're worried about. I want to know what it does in closed loop. How does it idle? How does it cruise for 10 miles? These things are what are affected.

The fuel maps do have full rpm range for open loop IIRC. I can check once I get my car back.

We're just trying to save you from *another* costly mistake, like the one you made the first time around popping your motor.
By UpOn1SERiousV
#134141
Idles great...900-1000 rpms (climbed slightly when my throttle valve started sticking and I shaved it down SLIGHTLY) but yeah, otherwise sounds good. I drive 42 miles each way to and from school... so with that alone, I drive 420 miles a week.... it goes into boost smoothly and just the other day I spoke with a guy on a gsxr 600 who couldnt believe how long I was able to hang with him before he started leaving me lol.
User avatar
By aaronsummers
#134145
UpOn1SERiousV wrote:Idles great...900-1000 rpms (climbed slightly when my throttle valve started sticking and I shaved it down SLIGHTLY) but yeah, otherwise sounds good. I drive 42 miles each way to and from school... so with that alone, I drive 420 miles a week.... it goes into boost smoothly and just the other day I spoke with a guy on a gsxr 600 who couldnt believe how long I was able to hang with him before he started leaving me lol.


I'm so confused how it's doing so well :) glad its all good for you, I just don't under stand. Good luck with it man
By risforroy
#134146
whoever you're talking to about UpRev is trying to fuck you.

running open dump and UpRev makes no difference. hell, you can run without an exhaust if you wanted to, and it wouldn't make a difference in what tuning software you use.

as long as you have your primary o2 sensor installed, you'll be fine with UpRev. NO, you don't need a different MAF, whoever fed you that is full of shit. you can buy an HPX or PMAS MAF, but really, with UpRev, you don't need it unless you're making gobs of power, which you're not (i'm talking 500+whp).

the thing with 'clamping' the maf is about air flow. on 02-03's you use an FIC to 'clamp' the maf around 10psi, because after a certain boost pressure, the 02-03 MAF's read the same voltage, so it's seeing the same amount of air flowing past it at 12lbs as it is 16lbs (theoretically). you can do the same with the 04+'s but there have been a LOT of problems, and honestly, i just don't feel like it's worth it.. sure the FIC has some cool little features, but it's nothing like UpRev.

how much boost are you running? stock motor or built? what size turbo? power goals? if you're doing a 'mild' turbo car (no built motor, sub 10lbs of boost, sub 350whp) then you probably won't want the headache that the FIC will bring with it. there's a reason why almost everyone is switching to UpRev.

UpRev is the way to go. you want to not have to worry about clamping the maf? put it in a 3inch intake pipe and problem solved. buy UpRev, drive to 2JRacing in Georgia, and profit like a motherfucker from having a sick tune on your car.
By UpOn1SERiousV
#134149
t3/t4 .50 trim, currently 12 spi steady, spiking 13-14, 8.5-1(90mm) compression, looking for about 350.... would be happy with a little less, excited about more lol) otherwise, what headaches are we talking about? I would appreciate any knowledge you have about the FIC. Like I said though, will be here friday so looks like I'm running with it but perhaps I'll have more luck considering how I've been running so far. who knows???
By risforroy
#134151
i've never ran one in the 07's and up, but the FIC does NOT like the 04-06 year model spec's. my buddy preston (specv118) could not get his to work, and eventually sold his turbo kit and everything because of the frustration it brought him, but this time around he's going with uprev, which is a much wiser choice.

i suppose it's really all in how knowledgeable the tuner is with the FIC. for some reason it just didn't like to be used on those year model cars, but a few 02-03 owners use it with lots of luck, and benefits. i've never used it on my personal vehicle, so it's hard for me to say what the real pro's and cons are, but the FIC was most certainly not an option when i bought tuning software. it was between MS3 and UpRev, and UpRev won, hands down.
By UpOn1SERiousV
#134181
As long as someone has had some luck with it, I'm hopeful lol. I'm in all honesty, not sure myself why exactly my car has been running so well up until this point... it blew when I attached a boost controller and was street tuning about 7k miles ago (I'm nearly positive I ran it too lean) oh well... other than that, my setup has been as is for over 15k miles. I do think the FIC will work though, I would imagine it could only get better than with my current A'pexi unit.
By UpOn1SERiousV
#134324
FIC came in today! I'll start soldering wires and making my connections tomorrow... it will take me a few days though due to being exetremely busy with other things over the weekend as well... but like I said, I'll keep you guys posted!

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